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rigid_evo
Big Kahuna
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 105
Location: Twin Cities
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 Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: |
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So I do not post much at all anymore since I "gave up" a while ago, but I have continued to lurk on here and read all I can and scrutinize every picture. I have started again and I realize now as I did back then that I may have even longer to wait for great lines than most. I totally agree with the thread and I won't even bore you all with pictures of my crap I have been laying down. I will continue to practice and once I get something worth asking feedback on, I will post it and EXPECT to get blasted. So to all of the people who provide feedback, keep on doing it and if they cannot handle the heat, they don't want to get better. Thanks for a great thread.
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I wish I was half the man my dog thinks I am. |
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kelseydum
Grand Daddy-O
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Little Rock, AR
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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As a newb, I would like to say that without places like this 3 years ago I would have never of even known this art was still so prominant. I knew a little about airbrushing but had never even seen a pinstriping brush. My first brush was given to me at a meet in Wisconsin by Dave the Letterman. I was fortunate enough to have tips from Jack Giachino (hope I spelled that right), Tramp Warner, Brian the Brush, Mark Kramer, Sal Cabrera and many other great pinstripers.
I am only mentioning this because I have taken initiative to get to events, meet people, GAIN THE KNOWLEDGE. My work might not show it now, but I have been soaking the information in like a sponge and know I have made great improvement from that first time I touched a brush. I am no PRO (by my standards and many others I am sure), but I am also not afraid to get out there and stripe. If I mess up, wipe it off and start over. I love this art and am here to stay whether you like looking at my horrid designs or not... I WILL GET BETTER WITH TIME AND PRACTICE!!! |
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alteredpilot
Grand Daddy-O
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 693
Location: hawthorne, ca
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | For someone who comes around here and only posts once or twice every couple of months, you sure do have a lot to say about what this site has become. |
dave,
its not about this site, its about the state of the craft or art form which ever you consider it, the over accessibilty to it, and the watering down of it by sub-par kulture whores. its on every site i visit.
thats the specific reason i only post here (or there) once in a blue moon. i've grown weary of wading thru page after page of...
"hey guys, i've been striping for four days and i did this wicked panel (trainwreck). i know i still need some work, but this is freaking addicting. some guys in my brothers car club already want me to stripe their station wagons so i'm gonna go to the local cruise and look for some work. any tips?"
i usually only open threads by people who's work i'm familiar with, and when i do stumble into one of the aforementioned newbie threads i always leave the same brand of firm crit.
| Quote: | | If you want to make changes why dont you show use by example. You have done a fairly good job of showing what needs to be done, tonight. However, how long will this last? |
its not about me wanting to change anything per se. my OP was a straightforward commentary on the reality of pinstriping to a rather unrealistic and uninitiated group of young enthusiasts. i'm just one man with a very real respect for this thing and all those who starved and struggled because this is what they do. you ask how long it will last. i dont think it will even take. there are too many insta-net stripers floating around out there who just dont have time to learn anything that takes effort. once the kulture trend fades, there will be the remnant.
| Quote: | | Now that you lit a fire under some peoples butts, how long will it last, a few days. Then it will fade out, and someone else will make a rant post saying how we need to work on making the artform better. |
i think you're right.
but it s not about 'US' making the art form better. those of 'US' who have done this with any level of dedication are consistenly raising our personal bars. its about keeping the bar high for newbs, hackers, hobbyists, kulture whores, and internet glommers-on.
if everyone of 'us' makes a dedicated effort to give straightforward and honest constructive criticizm and instruction and not reinforce sub par, mediocre work that's a start.
me thinks that there's way too much of an open door, hippy mentality to the interweb striping community. no one has to prove their chops or take a good razzing. no one has to work their way up thru the ranks to gain credibility. its a post and praise love-in. it lowers the bar.
if not a single newb striper takes pause to reconsider whether or not striping is for them because they catch an earful about craft, dedication, practice, and study, then we arent doing our jobs. this IS difficult and it should be. and those who persevere should be alpplauded and commended, those who dont make the cut should be advised to move on.
now i'm not saying that everyone who's not a jeffreis, roth, or similar should just drop the mack and take up macrame. there are some who just dont have what it takes and mabye something else would be more well suited for them. thats cut and dry. there are those who are just naturally gifted and excel from jumpstreet...a couple guys on here come to mind....there are those who have worked hard for whatever amount of time to gain a mastery of the craft thru dedication and labor, then there are the those who fall into the mass category...marginally talented, arent dedicated enough to make a profitable business out of it, but enjoy the hell out of striping and being part of this community. these are the guys who need to be beaten with a wet noodle. these are the guys who need to be pushed and encouraged to grow.
i cant tell anyone to quit or not to do something they have no business doing, i can only give my opinion and speak from my experience.
when mediocrity is reinforced, the market becomes modiocre. this is not only a creative craft, but a competitive trade. it makes it harder on the professionals when a glut of $5 stripers, reinforced by their mastery of the internet, flood the scene and lower not only the price, but the level of execution and expectations. soon medicre becomes o.k. and excellence is no longer necessary.
granted there will always be afficionados who demand nothing but the best, but your average joe rat rodder doesnt know this from that. so they hire the bargain basement internet striper to do this and that and soon the arteest grows complacent in his 'getting paid' rat work, never grows, never does anything beyond what makes him a little beer money for the weekend.
its tough. |
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biggyD
Kult Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 26
Location: IN
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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this might be overstating the obvious .but,are you forgetting that this is an art form and not everyone is into rat rods or making money at this .I want to learn for the art of it ,so I will practice till I make it perfect ,just like I had to for several years to learn metal forming...
btw-this is not to be argumentive in anyway .....I'm just wondering,does everyone get into this because they think they're goin to make a bunch a $??My friend has been at it 30 years and doesn't.however he only takes jobs from people who want a pro job and expect to pay for it . |
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alteredpilot
Grand Daddy-O
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 693
Location: hawthorne, ca
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| biggyD wrote: | | this might be overstating the obvious .but,are you forgetting that this is an art form and not everyone is into rat rods or making money at this .I want to learn for the art of it ,so I will practice till I make it perfect ,just like I had to for several years to learn metal forming... |
i think that that right there is part of the situation.
this is a craft first. a primarily automotive craft.
it has a purpose.
the art comes secondary to and is a natural extention of the craft.
there are too many folks trying to be artistic before they have a firm grip on the craft. |
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badace
Grand Daddy-O
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 970
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| biggyD wrote: | | I'm just wondering,does everyone get into this because they think they're goin to make a bunch a $ |
Money is the reason I started.
Then it grew into a consuming passion.
But I still appreciate the money.
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www.badacepinstriping.com
www.pinheadlounge.com/badace |
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biggyD
Kult Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 26
Location: IN
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been customizing and building motorcycles for some 20 years .I've never done it for the $ ,I have a primary source of income ,it is an art to me .........During that time I have always had striping done both freehand and on graphics flames etc. and have always been fascinated by it .I should have started learning when I was 20 instead of 40 ,but I will learn as it is my new challenge .it may take me several years ,I dont care I love a challenge ....Anyway ,I do know what your saying as I have watched the motorcycle Fad boom and now slowly fade away witha lot of unskilled hacks slopping out mediocre at best work . |
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thesevenissilent
Grand Daddy-O
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 464
Location: Tecumseh,MI
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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A saying I have painted on my car.Got it from a church billboard.I read them all the time and some are quite inspirational.
"Never let the best you can do today set the standard for the rest of your life".
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www.pinheadlounge.com/elvago |
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thecastro
Kult Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Location: ohio
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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This is a really awsome post. I just started striping maybe 2 moths ago i just do it for fun i dont do cars or any thing like that i paint signs for my shop thats about it. I just wanted to say that stuff like this has been happening in the tattoo world (this shit is forever, not removable with goo gone) for years and it is slowly killing every body who have taken the time to apprentice and learn the right way so i know what you guys are sayin.
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when in rome we do as the romans, when in hell we do shots at the bar |
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DOG
Grand Daddy-O
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 1365
Location: Crossville, Tenn.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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WOW!! AP, that's some really scarey shit you're throwin' down. I let this thread develope a while before putting my thoughts down. I think it took a lot of courage for you to expose how you really feel on this subject. The consequences are pretty profound for those of us willing to search our souls for self evaluation. Like many here on the Kult, I have basked in the compliments of many of the stripers whose work I admire. Now I can see where that might have been strictly what you call a "love fest", rather than an honest appraisal of my work.
Many here are aware of my long-term relationship with Ray "ElVago" Smith (thesevenissilent). Whenever I needed striping on one of my vehicles, I went to him. WHY?? Because he was a "professional" with perfect lines, perfect design, and perfect execution. Still today, if I had a decent rod, I would seek out Ray to do the striping on it rather than desecrate it with MY work . . . and yet I am willing to stripe someone elses car, or bike, and charge money for work that I would find sub-standard on my own ride. Your post really makes me question whether I am part of the problem . . . or if my willingness to question this process makes me part of the solution.
These are not easy questions, and will cause many of us (with conciences) to evaluate our place in a culture and artform that we don't just admire, but have taken as a life style since the 1960s (when I striped my first dash in a High School parking lot)even if we have not propelled ourselves to the level of expertise demonstrated by our heroes. I'm really bummed, but that is not necessarily a BAD thing. When you are over 60 years old, you learn to take disappointment and self doubt more in stride than when you were a young lion ready to tear up the world.
I don't intend to throw away my brushes, or give up in some grand gesture of defeat, but you have really opened my eyes to my proper place in the whole scheme of things. I thank you for your honesty and passion. I will continue to work and grow and be a daily visitor to StripeKult to learn new and exciting paint techniques and will post when in honest need of advice, or help . . . or when I can give the same.
DOG
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S.H.O.T.
If I would have known I'd live this long I'd have been just as crazy!!
http://www.pinheadlounge.com/portfolio.php?artistid=DOG
http://www.frontiernet.net/~dj.garrison |
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kustomkeifer
Da' BOSS!
Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 3590
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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AAAHHHH WORDS HURT MY EYES!!!!! POST ART!!! 
All kidding aside, great exchange here. I don't know how many of the stripers venture over to the Tattoo area, but there are so many paralelle (sp?) issues with "wanna' be" artists not willing to take the baby steps as well. Raw talent is so over-rated. Practice and proper training is KEY. "Work ethic is missing in many young people today"...$#!+ I'm my Dad!!
I've always used the analogy -
If you watch a master carpenter frame out a house it looks really EASY. You think...Hey! I can do that!
Now watch a guy doing it for the FIRST time. Sweating, shaking, struggling, making a mess of it, hitting his thumbs with the hammer...That's the guy you need to watch. He'll make you apreciate how HARD it is before you decide to take on a new carreer!
That being said, I think everyone has a right to any "hobby" they want to enjoy, as long as they respect the professionals in the field and aren't hurting anyone or anything. I think the frustration happens for me when I see terrible work that is represented and sold as professional work. Think how frustrating it is for us in the tattoo world! Paint comes off!!! LOL!!
People need to be educated.
Remember, the person who buys shit work for a bargin is a BIG part of the problem. Unfortunately, most people don't have the "eye", or know what they're looking at. It's up tp us to educate the public as much (and possibly more so) than the artists. I've worked side by side with complete BUMS whos work SUCKEd and yet customers would look at both porfollios and go with the other guy...WHY!?!? LOL!!! We take our own artistic eyes for granted. A LOT of people don't know good art/technique from bad....They desperately need our help!! LOL!!
I hope all the amatures and pros on this site will continue to post and share their knowledge without any hesitation.
Just to restate the original mission of Sketchkult once again...."A place for artists of ALL skill levels to post their works in progress and share constructive criticism".
Great job everyone!
Da Boss
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Last edited by kustomkeifer on Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Hetz
Grand Daddy-O
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 217
Location: Muscatine, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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I just have to comment on a great thread and even though it took many words to get the point across it has been said and I hope everyone on this site reads ALL the posts and learns from the input.
I feel the same way about replying to "train wreck" type posts and would love to give them a great start in one of my workshops and point them in the right direction so they can improve in the proper steps on learning the craft.
I'm glad this is out in the open and for everyone to absorb. I just don't want anyone to stop posting just think about it before posting.
I love this site and continue to lurk everyday, just don't always have time to reply all the time and will more often.
Thanks, AP for this and everyone else for their input!!!
Hetz
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www.pinheadlounge.com/hetz
Striping over thirty years and just keep on going!!! |
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purplemyth
Big Kahuna
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 102
Location: central GA.
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alteredpilot
Grand Daddy-O
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 693
Location: hawthorne, ca
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purplemyth
Big Kahuna
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 102
Location: central GA.
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